Your obvious question is the right one John and it is so tempting to stop and sday - ahh, John is right. But this is where you make the fundamental error and fall into a kind of idolatry of the bible - (bibliolatry?), which leads, if we allow your conclusion, to fundamentalism. The early Christians believed and knew that Jesus was THE word of God of incarnate. That's why they wrote the gospels etc. They didn't know because they had the new testament - they wrote the new testament because they knew.
We know because other Christians have handed on the good news to us. Christianity is about relationship - relationship with people, with God and his son Jesus Christ, and these are all connected. What you are inviting people to do is make a relationship with a collection of books. Very impersonal, and actually a heresy of idolatry.
So your title in this section really needs to say 'Please note, in the opinion of a few people.....'
But Andrew, we were not there. John 17:20 Jesus prayer is for those who come to believe through the Apostles' message. In Revelation the image of the New Jerusalem is built on the foundations of the Apostles. Jesus said, "man does not live on bread alone but...". The Bible's own claim is to be the word of God, which is human and divine. 2 Timothy 2:7, show that it's a supernatural thing to engage with God through the Bible.
You end up with a strange set of contradictions. Like, Jesus is the Word of God, a random non authoritative collection of human writings tell me so, in their opinion. And Evangelical types are treating the Bible idolatrously, where as you're not treating your reason idolarously?
A few people think. Eastern & Western Churches have always claimed that God reveals himself uniquely in Scripture. All Protestant confessions declare something along those lines, all with their own take of how they're used. So it's not really a few is it?
Again, you've represented quite a nasty inaccurate caricature suggesting very little engagement with what people have thought about the relationship between the word and the Word (if that's quite right). Do you normally go into an Evangelical Church and think, "wow, look at all that idolatry?"
"The Word became Flesh, and dwelt among us" - from the gospel of John. For Biblical literalists like J.R., surely this must trump his statement above?
ReplyDeleteAt the Incarnation, Jesus, 'The Word', was made incarnate. Either this is true or it is not. The rest is just 'words' - about 'The Word'.
Kiwianglo, obvious questions: How do you know the Word became flesh? How do you know its true? Why is this itself not just words?
ReplyDeleteYour obvious question is the right one John and it is so tempting to stop and sday - ahh, John is right. But this is where you make the fundamental error and fall into a kind of idolatry of the bible - (bibliolatry?), which leads, if we allow your conclusion, to fundamentalism. The early Christians believed and knew that Jesus was THE word of God of incarnate. That's why they wrote the gospels etc. They didn't know because they had the new testament - they wrote the new testament because they knew.
ReplyDeleteWe know because other Christians have handed on the good news to us. Christianity is about relationship - relationship with people, with God and his son Jesus Christ, and these are all connected. What you are inviting people to do is make a relationship with a collection of books. Very impersonal, and actually a heresy of idolatry.
So your title in this section really needs to say 'Please note, in the opinion of a few people.....'
Andrew, you're so wrong. But I suggest you read my latest piece.
ReplyDeleteBut Andrew, we were not there. John 17:20 Jesus prayer is for those who come to believe through the Apostles' message. In Revelation the image of the New Jerusalem is built on the foundations of the Apostles. Jesus said, "man does not live on bread alone but...". The Bible's own claim is to be the word of God, which is human and divine. 2 Timothy 2:7, show that it's a supernatural thing to engage with God through the Bible.
ReplyDeleteYou end up with a strange set of contradictions. Like, Jesus is the Word of God, a random non authoritative collection of human writings tell me so, in their opinion. And Evangelical types are treating the Bible idolatrously, where as you're not treating your reason idolarously?
A few people think. Eastern & Western Churches have always claimed that God reveals himself uniquely in Scripture. All Protestant confessions declare something along those lines, all with their own take of how they're used. So it's not really a few is it?
Again, you've represented quite a nasty inaccurate caricature suggesting very little engagement with what people have thought about the relationship between the word and the Word (if that's quite right). Do you normally go into an Evangelical Church and think, "wow, look at all that idolatry?"
Darren Moore
Chelmsford