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Thursday, 13 December 2012
Yesterday on the Jeremy Vine show, debating with Revd Chris Newlands
My interview on the Radio 2 Jeremy Vine show yesterday can be heard here for the next few days, starting at 1:09:45. Thanks to my cab getting stuck in road works and having to drive myself to the Radio Essex studios, I am speaking from a layby on the A130.
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Dear John,
ReplyDeleteI heard the broadcast and thought it might be you. Well done for taking part in what can be sometimes a no win situation. I do not understand how the media in it's attempt to present balance they end up presenting equal views rather than views that represent the populace. I do not understand how a person can be retained in his post when his views and lifestyle are opposite to those of the leadership. It will take the working of the Spirit to turn this matter around just as it did in the Major/Kinnock election of 1992. Arch Bishop Idahosa prophesised that he would not win only a few days before the election when all the polls said there would be a landslide. In the event, voters planning to vote for him just felt they couldn't when it came to it.
I pray that the Lord will work it out to serve his purposes.
Interesting the way the other guy argued;
ReplyDeleteE.g. I'd have to get married in another tradition (fair point), like Unitarian, but I'm very Trinitarian...
- Could still go to URC, Methodist etc.
- Went on about being Trad Anglican... trad Anglican (& every other denomination) traditionally believes marriage = 1 man, 1 woman.
He also never grasped the nettle. Not right/wrongs of gay relationships, or the like, but are 2 men/2women married?
Interesting that he through out the women bishop thing. It's note worthy that the most conservative & the most liberal in the church connect the two, the muddle in the middle don't. I wonder if open-evangelicals are like mice, feeding anglo-catholic & conservative evangelical mice to the cat... the cat will come back. I think this radio piece shows that. The recent CoE press release on this mentions complimentarian several times, but dismisses it from the bishop debate.
John - I thought you were clear & gracious.
John
ReplyDeleteI am not CofE
Is it not the rule of the CofE that gay clergy should be celebrate?
"Rev" Chris Newlands did not seem like he was advocating nor indeed did it seem like he was celibate in the interview. Our Bishop in Wales was sacked a few years ago for having an affair (with a female priest). Why is Chris not disciplined? He needs to renounce his homosexual practices or be sacked, you probably would John if you took up with a girlfriend!
On the other point Sydney has got it completely right (Fastest growing and strongest diocese in Australia). A point made to me recently by a Colonel (female) in the army was this. Wives submit to their husbands so that the husbands can love them completely as Christ loves the Church. (Read ALL of Ephesians 5:22-33) She always makes the point to prospective wives that you cannot bin one part without losing at least some measure of the later verses. Wives certainly want above everything else for their husbands to love them completely. When this is explained she says most wives see the need and logic and want to obey/submit so that their husbands can love them completely.
My view is that I am not sure that we are getting anywhere with the endless debate. "Christians" such as Chris worship their needs before anything else and certainly above God. Many have called it the cult of the individual. It may have a religious dimension but it certainly is not Christian, no matter how plausible and reasonable the guy sounds.
Anyway well done for trying.
I think the seed seems to be on increasingly stony ground John. Perhaps we need to rethink where we throw it and work more closely with other gardeners.
Phil
Loved how Jeremy Vine described you (after the song that was directly following the segment you were in) as "a vicar who isn't" (following on from describing the other guy as "a vicar who is gay".
ReplyDeleteOn the subject spoken about, I really found it hard not to say, in response to Chris Newlands, "What deep faith?" as he is clearly living in a relationship that the Bible declares to be wrong and wants to take it further.
And then there was the second caller (who said that he had been accepted to train as a Catholic priest) who had no idea where in the Bible it says that marriage is between a man and a woman or where it declares homosexuality to be wrong.
With people like this in the world being the ones that seem to be listened to, I find myself despairing and simply praying for Christ to return all the more!