Here, via the Cranmer website, is Ken Livingstone speaking at a Mosque about Mohammed's last sermon. You can assess for yourselves his tone and the import of his message. But can anyone imagine him turning up at, say, Holy Trinity Brompton and doing the same for the Sermon on the Mount and Christianity? Although it may just be he hasn't been asked, surely you don't need to go quite this far (I hesitate to say, "Suck up quite this much") to make the point that you're in favour of Muslims as people getting a reasonable deal in society
If you want to know what Mohammed actually is recorded as saying, it is here. Judge for yourself whether Ken Livingstone is right in his selection, interpretation and application.
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You might also want to check this out on the ex-Muslims website Faith Freedom International:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.faithfreedom.org/op-ed/a-phony-last-sermon-of-muhammad-and-the-fraud-of-progressive-islam/
Nope. I absolutely don't get it either and believe me I've tried.
ReplyDeleteIt's a conscious pincer movement by the Left and Islam to extirpate the Right and Christianity, which frankly shouldn't be too difficult as they barely exist in contemporary Britain, after which each assumes it will destroy the other in the final showdown. The principle is that of the Nazi-Soviet Pact. Conservative Christians are the Poles. There is no Churchill and there are no Americans.
ReplyDeleteThis isn't the Daily Mail website, you know...
DeleteI think it is a certain flavour of 'The Left'... I think ANY politicians brown nosing the Muslim vote just demonstrates their ignorance Muslim communities; which are as diverse as Christian communities – to presume otherwise is just patronising (an unfortunate foible of many on the Left!).
ReplyDeleteI think part of the reason why the likes of Ken don't dabble with Christian platforms is because 1) it is unlikely some Christians would allow them to ‘preach’ - and the ones that would, wouldn’t be the kind of Christians, many Christians would take seriously; 2) they are likely to have a better understanding of non-Muslim culture and therefore choose their audience a little more carefully.
I wonder if Boris will be taking to any Christian pulpits. Of course much was made (by the Right) of Boris’s choice of deputy during the last Mayoral election: Revd Ray Lewis. One Tory harridan stating he was ‘a Christian pastor and a family man...’ It is perhaps as a result of Revd Lewis’ resignation amid accusations of financial and sexual impropriety, that Boris has had the sense this time not to use religion in his present campaign? (see: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/raylewis)
I wonder if any of those present challenged Livingstone on how he has taken Muhammed's words completely out of context (assuming the sermon is authentic, and they really are Muhammed's words). In context, they clearly refer to relationships within the Muslim community, and how Muslim's should care for each other. They say nothing about how Muslims should relate to non-Muslims, which is how Livingstone is taking them.
ReplyDeleteNor, contra Livingstone, does the sermon ever say that Muslims shouldn't try to "convert" others (or not "invade" or "terrorize" or "oppress", but "get to know one another" for that matter). Those are Livingstones's own words that he tags on to Muhammed's and states as if they are the latter’s.
Most interesting is what he doesn't say. He quotes: "An Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab, nor does a non-Arab have any superiority over an Arab; white has no superiority over black, nor does a black have any superiority over white; [none have superiority over another]", but then doesn't quote the next words: "except by piety and good action".
So one can claim superiority over another- in biblical terms "boast"- if one is more pious and better behaved (by Muslim definition). A muslim could claim superiority of a non-muslim, and a more pious muslim over a less pious. That's what you get by salvation by works. But the gospel of salvation by grace eliminates all boasting about superiority, even that based on piety and good works.
“Blessed are the poor in Spirit”- those who know that they are not superior to others- “for theirs is the kingdom of heaven”. There’s a message for London.
Stephen Walton
Marbury
My own view is that many in Livingstone's audience would regard him as a 'useful idiot'. Meanwhile, I suspect that on the Left, the attraction of Islam is, as some have pointed out, to do with an anti-Western, anti-American, anti-Israel agenda, coupled with the Left's traditional support for the minority who are perceived to be oppressed by 'the West', 'society', 'capi-alism', etc.
ReplyDeleteHowever, my own experience of Islam per se (as distinct from Muslims as people) is that behind it is most definitely the forces of evil. I say this as one who has also studied the religion to a degree.
And this is worrying, because where politics and false religion combine we get into the territory of Revelation 13 with 'the beast' and 'the false prophet'.
There, I said it was verging on the paranoid.