tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post3284501399046327680..comments2024-03-28T08:30:20.260+01:00Comments on The Ugley Vicar: What’s really wrong with English Conservative EvangelicalismAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03590979027426082714noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-16199763500409119802007-06-09T09:29:00.000+02:002007-06-09T09:29:00.000+02:00I am an Evangelical that is Anglican, but what kin...I am an Evangelical that is Anglican, but what kind "open" or "conservative", i do not really know. But my background is working class, but being an Anglican clergyman in the US makes me uppr-middle?<BR/>There is this fine line, of preaching God's word, yet not at the expense of giving up our Anglican roots. But we need to focus on the working classes, who are falling the hands of the Liberals.John14https://www.blogger.com/profile/02783328568542817810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-25017911917401069532007-06-07T04:56:00.000+02:002007-06-07T04:56:00.000+02:00A very interesting and contructive critique. Thank...A very interesting and contructive critique. Thank you.Rory Shinerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10378270111323220078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-20755534584286232212007-06-05T19:01:00.000+02:002007-06-05T19:01:00.000+02:00Some much needed critique here. Though we conserv...Some much needed critique here. Though we conservative evangelicals like to think we're the ones who <I>really</I> preach the cross and preach grace, we're not exactly well known for humility. <BR/><BR/>About preaching, here at Wycliffe there are lots of (mostly) charismatic students who love the Bible but have been badly put off expository preaching by sermons that are little more than commentary, without even a smile or any sense of passion. We would do well to listen to Tim Keller distinguish between 'informational' preaching (which aims to make the truth clear) and 'experiential' (which aims to make the truth <I>real</I>).Tim V-Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16214478302093350970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-78571508446917200252007-06-05T12:59:00.000+02:002007-06-05T12:59:00.000+02:00John: this is just to say "hi". Good photograph! I...John: this is just to say "hi". Good photograph!<BR/><BR/> I followed links from Michael J's blog to this post and the matching one on the OE crowd. It's very good to hear your perspective on the UK scene, as I'm an outsider to it but an occasional reader of web material that's otherwise lacking some context.Bruce Yabsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10091471695711534450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-57823985768601976902007-06-04T23:58:00.000+02:002007-06-04T23:58:00.000+02:00This is brilliant, and what I would have said in a...This is brilliant, and what I would have said in a nutshell. The impression that many evangelicals have of Sydney is not helped by the fact that we are invited over to do the job of speaking bluntly...michael jensenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15379361601019023165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-22432744072412233242007-06-01T17:10:00.000+02:002007-06-01T17:10:00.000+02:00Amen to this.Amen to this.Peter M. Headhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03379103292621457026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-54914058811757513612007-05-30T19:54:00.000+02:002007-05-30T19:54:00.000+02:00peace, brother ...maybe we're not so far apart aft...peace, brother ...<BR/>maybe we're not so far apart after all (though you might have something to say baout my wife's orders!)<BR/>Tim GAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-32004443609726699522007-05-30T17:39:00.000+02:002007-05-30T17:39:00.000+02:00I think Free Church CEs are generally less "posh"....I think Free Church CEs are generally less "posh". BUT often have no idea that us Anglican CEs exist and are suspecious. So I think in both cases it is a case of "who can you trust".<BR/><BR/>As someone from a "bog-standard comp" & then Poly, I'm atypical for Anglican CEs. I used to get fed up with the school tie thing, BUT now I'm known and trusted it doesn't feel like that. In fact as a Vicar in a UPA rated in the poorest 5%, these "old school tie" types have proved to be very generous with time, money and prayer. They have a genuine concern for places like this.<BR/><BR/>Going the other way the Reformed Free Church types are now convinced that I am saved, in fact even quite sound. Some of them have stopped traveling such epic distances and now come to our Church. So it comes down to trust and you trust those you know, but sadly we often only know people like us.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-20629320758936998852007-05-30T01:44:00.000+02:002007-05-30T01:44:00.000+02:00Dear John,Thanks for the baloon puncturing.How do ...Dear John,<BR/>Thanks for the baloon puncturing.<BR/><BR/>How do we find ways that make the medium and the message cohere in the way men like John Stott made the truth sound so welcoming, warm ....compelling?<BR/><BR/>More anon... on strategic thinking and strategists.<BR/><BR/>Thanks again.<BR/><BR/>L'Chaim! Ifan....Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10132652875336008750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-34506691351246849292007-05-29T20:56:00.000+02:002007-05-29T20:56:00.000+02:00John Foxe,You're right to say that there are diffe...John Foxe,<BR/><BR/>You're right to say that there are differences between Anglican and Free Church CEs. I think a couple of things should be considered though<BR/><BR/>1. To what extent do Free church CEs (C here being conservative or classical whichever your preference) have their own leaders/heroes/notable personalities and to what extent are the leaders the same. Stott, Lucas and much of the reform crowd have an influence beyond Anglicanism<BR/>2. To what extent do the leaders in independent circles escape from the problems of being a particular type of people. Is or isn't there the equivalent of the school tie operating there<BR/>3. What other problems and issues have come about -see some of the comments on www.generationnext.org.uk on independenceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-30827672026629286542007-05-29T16:58:00.000+02:002007-05-29T16:58:00.000+02:00Dear John R,interesting comments as always. Howeve...Dear John R,<BR/><BR/>interesting comments as always. However, the title is slightly misleading unless you wanted to refer only to Anglican Conservative Evangelicalism. Outside Anglican circles those with a similar theological stance are rarely upper middle class. <BR/><BR/>I agree with your comment on theology and the need for good biblical theology yet I am sometimes concerned that this is trendily followed at the moment to the expense of systematic theology. If the past neglected the former and overemphasised the latter the solution isn't to switch positions but to teach and learn both.<BR/><BR/>Preaching is highly variable but perhaps we unfairly measure our minsters against conference superstars. Perhaps it's better to look at the larger scope of an individual's preaching. Do they range across the scope of scripture to teach the whole counsel of God? I'm firstly after a pastor who is faithful. If he's dynamic that's a bonus but it's no subsitute for faithfulness.<BR/><BR/>Strategy - I was intrigued by Broadbent's comment that OEs see themselves as the heirs of Keele '67. If that's the case, and if, in some sense Anglican CEs are trying to move away from that, or even turn the clock back, then that has strategic implications. I suggest they need to look outside Anglican circles in order to develop gospel strategies for this country. The nascent regional Gospel Partnerships are are welcome development here and I am particularly heartened by those which have chosen to link up with Affinity so planting a flag as to their primary identification as evangelicals first and Anglicans second.<BR/><BR/>These comments also impinge on the love of foreign bishops. If, strategically, Anglican CEs look to other evangelicals, who cares too much about bishops. Since the best of the bunch were martyred by Mary they've been of limited use (and usually of great hindrance) to the gospel. Theological learning plays a role here since it is likely to lead to ecclesiologies which make bishops redundant! I do wonder if CoMission would have been better off presbyterially ordaining instead of flying a bishop in.<BR/><BR/>I'm no particular fan of the CE label. Conservative has too many nasty overtones. I'd much rather call myself a Reformed Evangelical. It's interested that historic Reformed evangelicalism has its mystical touch feely sides. The emotions/affections/heart attitudes are often addressed in old sermons. Somehow Anglican CEs moved away from this: in the past perhaps by clinging to a minimal doctrinal creed that left no opportunity to explore wider Reformed riches; and in the present by feeling too much of a need to differentiate themselves from charismatics.<BR/><BR/>In Christ,<BR/><BR/>John Foxe.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-85925185436955892342007-05-29T11:34:00.000+02:002007-05-29T11:34:00.000+02:00John,A useful critique. One problem is that conse...John,<BR/><BR/>A useful critique. One problem is that conservative evangelicalism is in itself diverse. It includes its anti intellectuals its noisey bigots and its patrician class. I'm not sure if the class issue is unique to CEs or not.<BR/><BR/>At the same time it produces its working and middle class people and even its thinkers. The question is -are the noisey brigade and the notable personalities representatives of conservative evangelicalism in general?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com