tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post971132825758374999..comments2024-03-29T08:14:29.603+01:00Comments on The Ugley Vicar: Which of our bishops are guarding the gates?Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03590979027426082714noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-23366513071015991882009-11-21T22:33:20.975+01:002009-11-21T22:33:20.975+01:00Laughing and scoffing is my (self-conscious and no...Laughing and scoffing is my (self-conscious and not so funny) cover and mask for deeper anguishes over the observations posted.<br /><br />D. Philip Veitch<br />North Carolina, USAReformationhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06818168068978748081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-16382115419942841962009-11-20T02:23:31.598+01:002009-11-20T02:23:31.598+01:00I was ordained in 2000 by Bishop John Hind (then i...I was ordained in 2000 by Bishop John Hind (then in Europe, now at Chichester) - who examined me and my fellow ordinands vigorously on the Trinity and whether we held an objective view of the atonement (he didn't mind whether we held to penal substition, but it wouldn't do to say Jesus' death merely showed God's love or formed our characters as we thought of it). I was surprised, but pleasantly so.<br /><br />Andy Griffiths, GalleywoodAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-5307151687332974972009-11-19T13:23:50.727+01:002009-11-19T13:23:50.727+01:00Having been through the selection and ordination p...Having been through the selection and ordination process fairly recently, I can say that I was never asked about my beliefs on things like the virgin birth, the Trinity and so on. Nor, in my training, was there ever any suggestion that a particular view should be taken - as long as I could justify whatever position I took in the esssays I wrote.<br /><br />I was, however, asked by the DDO about sexual morality, on which my bishop takes a traditional, orthodox line. But another ordinand from my diocese, who openly lives in a same-sex partnership, was sent for training by said bishop - not because he himself had gone soft but because it was agreed between the ordinand and the DDO that this information didn't need to be passed on (it was the ordinand who told me this).<br /><br />My bishop would be livid if he knew, I'm sure. But it's not his orthodoxy that's at fault - it's his misplaced trust in the DDO.Tertiusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-25090339589405707752009-11-19T05:10:41.692+01:002009-11-19T05:10:41.692+01:00Nobody is guarding Sewanee
http://www.virtueonlin...Nobody is guarding Sewanee<br /><br />http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=11584eqbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-18219312759509030112009-11-19T01:44:49.534+01:002009-11-19T01:44:49.534+01:00F.A. Iremonger in his biography of William Temple ...F.A. Iremonger in his biography of William Temple (1948) writes of how Temple was turned down the first time he sought ordination, because he expressed uncertainty about the virgin birth. A year later he satisfied the Archbishop that his convictions on the matter were firm enough for him to be suitable for ordination.<br /><br />Things have changed since those days, and perhaps not for the better. Still, I suspect the reality of it is that today the right questions ARE asked of candidates for ordination, and the bishops (who have the responsibility: they lay hands on someone, or don't, and give them their title posts) are satisfied with weak answers in some cases.<br /><br />Probably Temple was lucky in being sent away to think for a year (or unlucky in not getting the job, if you look at it that way). He was a Fellow of an Oxford College and a philosophy teacher, so that he had a position in the world which (despite his youth) meant that the decision for or against ordaining him set an example. With most people who are ordained, the stakes can seem to be lower.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06361078618045725928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-65502382939437997172009-11-18T09:42:21.679+01:002009-11-18T09:42:21.679+01:00Macca, in my days - and I'm sure beyond - DDOs...Macca, in my days - and I'm sure beyond - DDOs did ask indeed ordination candidates <i>about</i> their beliefs. But the standards required from such inquiries can clearly be seen in the candidates who are finally put forward to be ordained, where we have everything from liberals to conservatives, via charismatics and mystics.<br /><br />This inquiry, in other words, is not the same thing as ensuring that candidates conform to the standards of historical, confessional, Anglicanism which they are nevertheless required to affirm at their ordination or licensing.<br /><br />I do, come to think of it, remember being asked at my interview for theological college what was my view of the Thirty-nine Articles, which fortunately I had read. I responded that I wasn't too sure about Article XXVII and the baptism of young children, to which the interviewer - one Dr George Carey - said a lot of people felt that way.<br /><br />Meanwhile, I imagine most dioceses have, like ours, a scheme of 'episcopal reviews' which take place a regular intervals. I have had several such. The standard form to be filled in asks nothing about what we believe doctrinally.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03590979027426082714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-34722509930841115082009-11-18T04:34:49.832+01:002009-11-18T04:34:49.832+01:00Church of England bishops in many cases have exami...Church of England bishops in many cases have examining chaplains (or clergy with a similar title) who interview candidates for ordination and report to the bishop. I don't know how many candidates they recommend against ordaining, or how often a bishop agrees to such a recommendation (i.e. refuses to ordain someone who was about to be appointed as a curate and made deacon): rightly (in my view) that kind of thing is viewed as confidential.<br /><br />If John P. Richardson underwent NO kind of scrutiny in the diocese where he was ordained, then I suspect his experience was unusual--although as David says, the training process does incorporate elements of close examination of ordinands' beliefs. Bishops who have responsibility for hundreds of parishes, don't (I suspect) have as much time as they would like for ministering face-to-face to the clergy under their authority.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06361078618045725928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-73775073880878463982009-11-17T19:27:17.429+01:002009-11-17T19:27:17.429+01:00It is difficult to form an evangelical theology of...It is difficult to form an evangelical theology of bishops because the role of the bishop did not develop until after the end of the apostolic era. I note that the ESV uses the term overseer. In 1 Timothy and Titus it is difficult to distinguish the various ministries. Still early church history shows us bishops of great authority which was exercised by preaching. I thought it was the archdeacon who had the administrative burden of protecting church property and bishops had a more spiritual role as chief pastor in canon law.<br /><br />I would have thought that prospective ordinands are examined quite enough - before training, during training, to be accepted by the diocese, to be accepted in the parish. The question is how. You cannot expect a bishop to demand of the candidate a faith more certain than his own.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05411510481652613673noreply@blogger.com