tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post8992504810154038767..comments2024-03-28T08:30:20.260+01:00Comments on The Ugley Vicar: Can secular society cope intellectually?Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03590979027426082714noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-90962763582529208052009-10-28T15:46:48.402+01:002009-10-28T15:46:48.402+01:00"Unfortunately, a citizenry susceptible to a ..."Unfortunately, a citizenry susceptible to a herd mentality..."<br /><br />How is the CofE "flock" doing these days???<br /><br />Surely your are only arguing because the intelligentsia have replaced the frocked? The "unherded" secularists are much more likely to have a diverse viewpoint than an inculcated religious group.Donaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17723112700429657229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-1968290113871909162009-10-26T23:35:07.196+01:002009-10-26T23:35:07.196+01:00Ah, I see Merseymike's thoughtcrime police for...Ah, I see Merseymike's thoughtcrime police force are already at work in the UK:<br /><br />http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1222861/Pensioner-complained-gay-pride-march-warned-police-hate-crime.html<br /><br />Mark B.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-5549984980665393922009-10-26T16:05:08.400+01:002009-10-26T16:05:08.400+01:00"...to pry this limpet of strategic blandness..."...to pry this limpet of strategic blandness from the rock and expose the unsightly muscle beneath"<br />Doubtless there is (some) muscle there, but was this an intentional pun or a lapsus attentionis?<br />Anyone who has followed the saga of Mark Steyn and Ezra Levant in their battle against Canada's "hate speech" censorship laws (doing battle with the jihadis) could reasonably fear that freedom of speech and open debate are disappearing from the west, as the Committee for Public Safety redivivus stalks the lands. <br />Merseymike's desire to censor unacceptable (to him) views on homosexuality is already a reality in Canada.<br /><br />Mark B.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-21229950135195727582009-10-26T12:15:41.018+01:002009-10-26T12:15:41.018+01:00Well, what a great post! It's already been fan...Well, what a great post! It's already been fanned out to colleagues and friends.<br /><br />The subject of the inherent inconsistency in secularists' approach to morality is dealt with really well in Keller's 'The Reason for God'. Secularists need to be pressed because as you say they have a case to answer in the light of the BNP and cross-cultural norms.<br /><br />Your post does seem to suggest that if only the secularists managed to approach the matter with intellectual rigour they would have an answer. My view is that the arguments for moral relativism will always 'eat themselves' - as in 'I can't tolerate intolerance', for example. Ultimately, people need to recognise that we are not the objects of our own universe, but subjects of God.john leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17182494985054970876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-8243800549616090732009-10-26T11:07:10.601+01:002009-10-26T11:07:10.601+01:00Thank you for this post. Cogent and insightful. I&...Thank you for this post. Cogent and insightful. I'm going to direct all ten of my readers in your direction. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-50889431747554695792009-10-26T08:54:28.280+01:002009-10-26T08:54:28.280+01:00Merseymike, what if I were to say (leaving religio...Merseymike, what if I were to say (leaving religion out of it), that given that we do not know the causes of sexual orientation, but given that it appears for some people to go through a 'variable' phase, and given that a same-sex orientation is going to have limiting effects on some aspects of sexuality - for example the possibility of bringing up one's own children within a biological family - therefore the exposure of children to same-sex concepts should be 'restrained' in their early years, how would you respond? I'd just be curious to know.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03590979027426082714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-49368201993787849222009-10-26T02:09:33.859+01:002009-10-26T02:09:33.859+01:00But religious outlooks have exactly the same effec...But religious outlooks have exactly the same effect as one simply ends up with competing absolutes.<br /><br />In a society where most people believe the same things - small scale, homogenous - it is reasonably easy to impose norms. Far less so when there are diverse views and values.<br /><br />Not all secularists are relativists - or soggy liberals! I'm very clear, for example, that conservative religionist views on gay and lesbian sexuality are wrong and should be restrained outside the private sphere. But others would disagree.Merseymikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07231364271812168188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-71546931171324406842009-10-24T18:28:28.647+01:002009-10-24T18:28:28.647+01:00Well said!Well said!Stuarthttp://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-29577839223500285052009-10-24T14:14:39.321+01:002009-10-24T14:14:39.321+01:00LC, an important question is whether the social no...LC, an important question is whether the social norms and national traditions inculcated by the educational system are true 'values' or merely different outlooks that we call 'values'.<br /><br />The word 'Taleban' means 'Students' - Students of an educational system which has inculcated social values. Yet is it enough simply to have been a 'student' who has absorbed a set of values - whether "our values" or someone else's?<br /><br />Part of what Griffin is saying is that some values are wrong values. In this, I suspect you may agree with him, rather than the (quoted) views of Germaine Greer.<br /><br />The problem, as Antonia Senior observes, is that Griffin is doing the critiquing that our society ought to be, but is not, because its underlying philosophy inhibits such a critique: "If he is the only one talking about immigration, or the role of women in Islam or the sense of alienation and disenfranchisement felt, rightly or wrongly, by some white Britons, then his voice will be amplified. He is shouting while we whisper. If his voice is heard above ours, we have only ourselves to blame."Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03590979027426082714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-71568231472986748132009-10-24T10:52:54.496+01:002009-10-24T10:52:54.496+01:00I don't agree about the conclusions you draw i...I don't agree about the conclusions you draw in this piece. All citizenry's are susceptible to herd mentality and I don't believe ours to be any more so. The education system is always going to transfer the social norms and traditions of a nation as that is esentially it's job in all societies. I agree that a relaxed defense of our values steming from a true understanding of them should be expected and is always a shame when its replaced by catcalling or dismissal. This is not however the sign of an intellectually weak people angry that someone dare break the mold. Instead I think it is a genuine anger at someone who's public persona simply hides a more hidious agenda which cannot be reasoned against whilst it is concealed. The greatest failing of the panel wasn't in their inability to engage or defend their values but to unroot and reveal Nick Griffin's.learning co-ordinatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12743831464870196168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-87288579933051886062009-10-24T10:34:08.122+01:002009-10-24T10:34:08.122+01:00Well said.
Do you ever wonder whether there are a...Well said.<br /><br />Do you ever wonder whether there are any subjects about which you were never taught to think critically?Janicenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-34454407025903985282009-10-24T10:27:12.767+01:002009-10-24T10:27:12.767+01:00Excellent piece, I have shared this one around!Excellent piece, I have shared this one around!Stuarthttp://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-8758837720762075182009-10-24T10:00:03.333+01:002009-10-24T10:00:03.333+01:00Excellent!Excellent!Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.com