tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post5044917113263906582..comments2024-03-28T08:30:20.260+01:00Comments on The Ugley Vicar: Stupidity and murder - where's the justice?Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03590979027426082714noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-79799975252745425282011-01-26T14:41:20.624+01:002011-01-26T14:41:20.624+01:00In the UK justice system, I don't think life i...In the UK justice system, I don't think life imprisonment has ever been understood to mean life without parole, other than in a small number of exceptional cases.<br /><br />On your final comment, I think you do the system a disservice. Parole boards have to make rational decisions based on the evidence before them, and these decisions can be challenged.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-5376525901768448102011-01-24T09:08:12.556+01:002011-01-24T09:08:12.556+01:00I can detect a difference between:
(a) the death ...I can detect a difference between:<br /><br />(a) the death penalty<br /><br />(b) spending the whole of your life in prison (which is what we though 'life imprisonment' meant when it was introduced)<br /><br />and<br /><br />(c) spending nine years in prison in your teens and twenties and thereafter having to be under the supervision of parole officers, but being free to get on with and enjoy life provided they think you're fitting in well.<br /><br />Given the choice between (a), (b) and (c), which would most people find the least palatable?<br /><br />And compare (c) with eighteen months in prison for chucking a fire extinguisher off a roof.<br /><br />There is actually some interesting material on this on the <a href="http://www.hmprisonservice.gov.uk/adviceandsupport/prison_life/lifesentencedprisoners/" rel="nofollow">HM Prisons website</a>. Amongst other things I note,<br /><br />"... prisoners must serve a minimum period of imprisonment to meet the needs of retribution and deterrence. This punitive period is announced by the trial judge in open court and is known commonly as the “tariff” period. <br /><br />Release will only take place once this period has been served and the Parole Board is satisfied that the risk of harm the prisoner poses to the public is acceptable. This means that indeterminate sentence prisoners could remain in prison for many more years on preventative grounds after they have served the punitive period of imprisonment set by the trial judge."<br /><br />So on the one hand, the punitive and deterrent “tariff” for murder may actually be a period in single figures for a teenager - which seems bizarre. But once the set punishment has been served, that person may be kept in prison indefinitely on the say-so of a parole board because they <i>might</i> do something wrong, which seems unjust!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03590979027426082714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-69135034178261530312011-01-23T23:14:34.479+01:002011-01-23T23:14:34.479+01:00revsimmy and others are spot on. Breach of parole ...revsimmy and others are spot on. Breach of parole licence means you can be recalled to prison even though you haven't been convicted of a fresh crime. That's why parole works - it's not automatic, so it gives people in prison the hope of an early release for good behaviour. Once out, they have an incentive to behave themselves and work with parole officers to reintegrate into society, under threat of being locked up again. For a life sentence, that threat forever remains.<br /><br />More widely, sentencing is a very difficult subject. Regarding the fire extinguisher incident, I think rioting and public disorder crimes have normally been dealt with severely by the courts. Three years sounds about right to me, but then I'm no expert. I think he could get parole halfway through.<br /><br />I agree with John - the judicial system can't solve the problems of society - but are there any alternatives?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-26554987651325664172011-01-19T00:59:35.285+01:002011-01-19T00:59:35.285+01:00A parole licence may contain conditions about all ...A parole licence may contain conditions about all sorts of things, such as where and in what type of accommodation the parolee may live, with whom they may or may not associate, where they may or may not go, plus a requirement to report regularly to police and/or a parole officer. Breach of any of these conditions would be grounds for returning the person directly to prison without further judicial process (i.e. a trial, conviction and sentence) which would be required if the person were released unconditionally and then committed a subsequent crime.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-73123048440613225012011-01-13T09:05:11.276+01:002011-01-13T09:05:11.276+01:00I suspect that, as with bail, parole conditions mi...I suspect that, as with bail, parole conditions might tend to be more restrictive than mere adherence to legality. For instance, I could well envisage a paroled fraudster having his passport confiscated.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Michael Canaris / SydneyMichael Canarishttp://canaris1.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-34254661982768052182011-01-12T16:17:39.107+01:002011-01-12T16:17:39.107+01:00Phil, I might be being a bit thick here, but I'...Phil, I might be being a bit thick here, but I'm finding it hard to distinguish between a person who is out of prison 'on license', who would be returned if they breached the conditions of their release, and someone who has served a prison sentence but would, naturally, go back to prison if they subsequently broke the law again.<br /><br />In other words, it is hard (at least from my lay perspective) to see any substantial difference between a "life sentence" that only results in a short time in prison and a "short sentence" for the same crime.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03590979027426082714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-1118901977274062622011-01-12T14:25:47.575+01:002011-01-12T14:25:47.575+01:00Agree with the thrust of your post John, there see...Agree with the thrust of your post John, there seems to be no logic to the sentencing policies being pursued by the judiciary at the moment. <br /><br />Regarding 'life sentence' I think you will find that a person so sentenced may be released after a period of time but should they breach the conditions of their release they could be recalled to prison. In other words they are released on license and their sentence has not expired, though they may have served a stipulated period in prison.Philip Ritchiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05912352719196616923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-65336491419470772602011-01-12T14:12:44.678+01:002011-01-12T14:12:44.678+01:00John,
What a lot of interesting issues this raise...John,<br /><br />What a lot of interesting issues this raises.<br /><br />1. Your point about one crime equating to 1/5 the culpability of another shows the difficulty of any "years-in-prison" approach to crime and punishment. The Bible's approach to both eternal punishment and temporal criminal codes seems to be one of retribution where the punishment fits the crime: reject your Lord, be rejected by Him; take someone's life, lose your own; steal someone's property, repay it twice over etc. Now obviously there are lots of hermeneutical and theological debates to go through over application of OT Law etc, and Christians (and evangelicals) will fall on both sides, but surely such a principle provides a better starting point. How does any length of time in prison equate to rape, or theft, or fraudulent expenses claims?<br /><br />2. How much should the outcome of Mr Woollard's act determine his crime/punishment? Yes, English law distinguishes attempted murder from successful murder. Only Mr Woollard knows his intention (hopefully it wasn't murder), but to throw a fire extinguisher from a roof into a crowd of people has an entirely foreseeable potential of killing someone. He cannot claim to be ignorant of that. So his crime appears more than simple stupidity to me. He may not have intended personal injury, but he must have realised it was possible.<br /><br />PS, CS Lewis in his Perelandra trilogy brilliantly unmasks the failings of a humanist system which replaces retribution with 'rehabilitation' as the cornerstone of criminal policy.Neil Jeffershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07049760329273618171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-66485462060781018532011-01-12T13:54:15.677+01:002011-01-12T13:54:15.677+01:00Tim, that doesn't seem to be very onerous!Tim, that doesn't seem to be very onerous!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03590979027426082714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-62679779728713797692011-01-12T11:41:47.956+01:002011-01-12T11:41:47.956+01:00As you so rightly say, there appears to be no sort...As you so rightly say, there appears to be no sort of balance in the type of sentences meted out for very disparate crimes.<br />The Lawrence case is only one of many, where in the absence of the death sentence (thank heaven)<br />lunatic leniency seems to have taken over from common sense.<br />Of course the fire extinguisher incident had the potential to be fatal but was not, therefore a suspended sentence with jail as the reward for any further stupidity would surely have been sufficient.<br />Until such time as a complete overhaul (not in my lifetime), of the judiciary/sentencing system happens, the law will remain, as it has always been, an ass!Ray Barneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09209429097744326143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-75619946381391963252011-01-12T11:25:03.549+01:002011-01-12T11:25:03.549+01:00Dear John
I think you'll find that a life sen...Dear John<br /><br />I think you'll find that a life sentence means that you are only let out on licence and can be recalled to prison at any time if considered a danger to the public.<br /><br />Yours<br />Tim<br />W.SussexAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com