tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post1139816069012081561..comments2024-03-28T08:30:20.260+01:00Comments on The Ugley Vicar: Changing views on marriage raise important questions on evangelical truthAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03590979027426082714noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-75460017535977667522011-04-11T10:57:49.640+01:002011-04-11T10:57:49.640+01:00Benny, as it happens I sent a response to this to ...Benny, as it happens I sent a response to this to the CEN this morning. As it is a letter for publication, I will wait until their Friday edition appears before putting it online.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03590979027426082714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-29229625891194924502011-04-11T09:10:02.878+01:002011-04-11T09:10:02.878+01:00Dear John
I have now posted my response to your ar...Dear John<br />I have now posted my response to your article, a shorter version of which was printed in the CEN letters page last week.<br />You (& others) can see the fuller version on my Blog.<br /><br />http://benny2010.blogspot.com/2011/04/church-tradition-and-bride-of-christ.html<br /><br />Let me know your thoughts...Benny Hazlehursthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11106740133903626260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-65434655195614904262011-04-02T08:04:29.163+01:002011-04-02T08:04:29.163+01:00Benny, I look forward to your contribution and hop...Benny, I look forward to your contribution and hope others will join in - and therefore welcome back Mark B (any chance of a surname??)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03590979027426082714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-5615345065824726522011-04-02T06:53:35.073+01:002011-04-02T06:53:35.073+01:00Fair enough, John - I look forward now to Benny Ha...Fair enough, John - I look forward now to Benny Hazlehurst making good on his promise here.<br />I think my broader point still holds here (and I imagine you would agree with it), that the definition of "evangelical" has been so extended as to make the term fairly meaningless; so if someone describes himself as "evangelical" what does that mean today? There are numerous people, including several bishops in the Church of England, who came from a conservative evangelical (Anglican or Baptist) background, and might be thought of in those terms by those "outside", but their view of Scripture and the their theological method is really moderate modern liberalism, while their social and political outlook more often than not is real the guiding star of their pronouncements.<br />To see people like Bishop Nick Baines (who claims the evangelical badge) commending David Jenkins (remember him?) shows how etiolated theology has becoem in the Church of England.<br /><br />Mark B.,<br />West KentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-48524317049562169282011-04-02T00:02:03.646+01:002011-04-02T00:02:03.646+01:00Dear John
Thank you for taking the time to respond...Dear John<br />Thank you for taking the time to respond to my recent article. Unlike a number of other responses, you have sought to address the issues and questions I raised, and I value that.<br /><br />I will get back to you with a response once I have time to reflect on the points you have made.<br /><br />God Bless<br />Benny HazlehurstBenny Hazlehursthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11106740133903626260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-37142406971799272332011-04-01T15:12:46.360+01:002011-04-01T15:12:46.360+01:001. The article says, early on, "how far we ha...1. The article says, early on, "how far we have come". Surely it should say "how far we have fallen..."<br /><br />2.The first poster says: "According to the story, God really did make Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. But...Adam and Steve could have done exactly the same thing Adam and Eve did."<br /><br />No, they couldn't. There is no way that Adam and Steve could have had children. Sin or no sin that would have been the end of the human race, but God created it as He did for a reason...<br /><br />3. Even in an independent Reformed, Protestant Anglican style congregation like mine we think it prescient and sensible to occasionally remind people that, as Dan Baynes says, if they don't believe what is said in the Creed they should keep their mouths shut when it is said!Rt Rev Dominic Stockfordnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-32853324204367279642011-04-01T10:24:39.846+01:002011-04-01T10:24:39.846+01:00Graham, you were prescient indeed (although not en...Graham, you were prescient indeed (although not entirely alone of course - in fact during the days leading up to 11.11.1992 a number of evangelicals on Synod sought assurances from Abp. Carey that voting for that measure wouldn't lead on to SSM etc. Clearly they thought there was a link, or at least that many people see a link and act on that assumption.<br /><br />Any chance you still have to hand that letter you sent to EA? Care to post it here?<br /><br />PBZ - great post. Your concluding remarks can be summarised by saying that said "modern Christians" no longer believe in the communion of saints, and should therefore stay silent when that part of the creed comes up in church.<br /><br />Dan Baynes<br />Barton SeagraveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-42691451687048443832011-04-01T09:07:33.656+01:002011-04-01T09:07:33.656+01:00Thank you very much for this clarifying article, e...Thank you very much for this clarifying article, especially the top-bottom vs bottom-top approach is insightful. It is quit clear everything is turned upside down in our days. And I completely agree with mr. Pointer, that it are the theological arguments that count. I remember that this was also the exact argument by rev. Jeffrey John, who contended that those who were against same-sex marriages/relationships, should also go back to exclusively male leadership and a headcovering for women, because it are the same arguments. <br /><br />But I would like to add that these theological arguments are again imbedded in our view of what Christianity and the Church is. It strikes me more and more that christians in our days not only find the position of the Church in former generations completely irrelevent, but also don't care anything about the position of other christians in their own time. My conclusion would be that the Church is no longer viewed as a living community of all ages and places under Christ its Head who through his Apostles has delivered to that community the faith once delivered, but as some sort of a human philosophy which we can alter to achieve human goals in this world.P. Boswijk Zeistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-26929265525283482842011-04-01T07:48:16.594+01:002011-04-01T07:48:16.594+01:00Hi Mark. I've decided I have to delete your co...Hi Mark. I've decided I have to delete your comments re Benny Hazelhurst as he is not here to represent himself.<br /><br />Also, though I know you comment regularly, they do not have a full name and location and therefore would not be personally attributable, which in the circumstances I think must be required.<br /><br />Do keep posting, though.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03590979027426082714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-2295400152834639852011-04-01T07:38:00.293+01:002011-04-01T07:38:00.293+01:00I often read the letters page in "Church of E...I often read the letters page in "Church of England Newspaper" with a feeling of despair. I remember about 15 years ago the Evangelical Alliance's magazine did a gushing article about women church leaders, and I wrote in to predict that within a generation, using similar arguments (Paul was affected by the thinking of the day, politically incorrect Biblical passages are all due to "local circumstances", Jesus never said anything about it, the Church needs to be "relevant", etc. etc.) mainstream evangelical thinking would have no problem with same-sex marriages. <br /><br />I was wrong about it taking as long as a generation.Graham Pointerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03538991243769088600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-66020653563976224252011-04-01T07:33:12.235+01:002011-04-01T07:33:12.235+01:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-52660227770359766852011-03-31T22:46:03.603+01:002011-03-31T22:46:03.603+01:00According to the story, God really did make Adam a...According to the story, God really did make Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. But...Adam and Steve could have done exactly the same thing Adam and Eve did. Do a search: The First Scandal. Then click twice.Robert Hagedornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03047026068043418553noreply@blogger.com