tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post1077021756862994705..comments2024-03-28T08:30:20.260+01:00Comments on The Ugley Vicar: Richard Kirker links Jensen to AkinolaAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03590979027426082714noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-12114240910279579552007-08-16T10:47:00.000+02:002007-08-16T10:47:00.000+02:00Thank you, Martin.Thank you, Martin.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03590979027426082714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-2997574140863893732007-08-16T10:07:00.000+02:002007-08-16T10:07:00.000+02:00I live in the city of Casnewydd.I live in the city of Casnewydd.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-65459074768164459102007-08-16T09:40:00.000+02:002007-08-16T09:40:00.000+02:00Martin ReynoldsCould you please state where you're...Martin Reynolds<BR/><BR/>Could you please state where you're from - otherwise your comment will be deleted! It is an important contribution, but I'm trying to maintain a <A HEF="http://ugleyvicar.blogspot.com/2007/07/comments-policy.html">policy</A> here, and I have to treat everyone the same.<BR/><BR/>John RichardsonAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03590979027426082714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-90111716778918606842007-08-16T00:08:00.000+02:002007-08-16T00:08:00.000+02:00I’m always interested in the “racist” label being ...I’m always interested in the “racist” label being trotted out again here.<BR/><BR/>I can’t see it myself – but then perhaps I just don’t think like that.<BR/><BR/>But Nigerian born and South African educated Richard Kirker is the least likely person to be a racist I know ………<BR/><BR/>I had hardly thought it anything of a secret that Peter Jensen was the main proponent and senior organiser of the Anglican realignment currently underway. I am sure he would be happy to confirm the help received by Nigeria when reordering their constitution and other matters – they are quiet and modest but I don’t believe they lie.<BR/><BR/>The Jensen family and their worldwide allies have not hidden their dislike of Rowan Williams’s theology, nor disguised their pique at being firmly “in the sights” of the Lambeth Commission, and there seems to be no reluctance to laud the Primate of Nigeria. I don’t think they have any problems with that agenda at all! It is quite clear from talking to and listening to Sydneyites such as Robert Tong how key they see their own role in all this.<BR/><BR/>Speculation abounds at times like this – but pressed, the Archbishop of Sydney would agree that his presence and advice has been decisive. Bishop Duncan of Pittsburgh made that clear only a week or so ago. Isn’t it rather disingenuous and dishonest to suggest anything else ….?<BR/><BR/>Now where is that happy snap of the two Peter’s on holiday on the Red Sea in Egypt ……?<BR/><BR/><BR/>Phil(l)ip and Peter (Ahhh!0 My fault completely in this webpage version - sorry and thanksAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-26202937591215211712007-08-07T20:40:00.000+02:002007-08-07T20:40:00.000+02:00It's Peter - Kirker just got confused, as you do.It's Peter - Kirker just got confused, as you do.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03590979027426082714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-13495994244840139202007-08-07T08:11:00.000+02:002007-08-07T08:11:00.000+02:00I don't understand, do the rumours talk about Pet...I don't understand, do the rumours talk about Peter [Archbishop] or Philip [Dean with one or two l's] Jensen?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-43314882609182938282007-08-06T14:15:00.000+02:002007-08-06T14:15:00.000+02:00Another view that shows Richard Kirker may be unen...Another view that shows Richard Kirker may be unenlightened, I'm surprised Michael didn't pick up on... in the quote from another article he talks about the Archbishop of Sydney - Philip. He is muddleing up his Jensens.<BR/><BR/>I've found this before in Jensen bashing. When I've asked the person concerned which Jensen, they look baffled and say, "The Australian one". In most cases they've never met either, read or heard anything of them, but just going by some hearsay. My own encounters with them just doesn't match the image that gets painted of them. I'm glad that they take it in good humour.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-33598064473825521812007-08-06T05:01:00.000+02:002007-08-06T05:01:00.000+02:00Peter,Just for the record, I *was* the diocesan Co...Peter,<BR/><BR/>Just for the record, I *was* the diocesan Communications Officer for Rhode Island. I left that post some months ago to an able successor in order to focus 100% on parish ministry.<BR/><BR/>I wouldn't make something up like that rumor. Well, maybe I'd make something up for humor, but I'd hope it was obviously fabricated and for chuckles all around.<BR/><BR/>While I happen to be a progressive/liberal, I do want the very best for the Church, and I expect that just about every orthodox/conservative does too. Our assumptions, priorities, and hermeneutics may be different, but I happen to believe almost everyone is behaving in good faith in all this.<BR/><BR/>The reason I think this is germane to this post and to this discussion is that rumors and speculations can be helpful, or they can be deadly. Much of our present crisis has been caused by some lousy behavior on the part of a few people (of diverse theological views).<BR/><BR/>My hope is that we could be civil to one another. I hasten to add that this is not a response to your post -- you were quite civil in both comments -- but a clarifications that I try to write things that I'm comfortable saying to someone's face (i.e. respectful). I wasn't trying to stir the pot, but to point out where we've gone.<BR/><BR/>The point that John+ makes is right on. Lousy things have been said about +Peter Akinola, and that's a shame and it's sinful. (I've probably said some of these things myself, I'm sorry to say.) Of course, lousy things have been said *by* Peter Akinola others, not that this excuses his critics.<BR/><BR/>OK, I've said my piece. Bottom line: I would hope we could all try to act like Christians, especially toward our fellow Christians. Where I've erred, I'll add my mea culpa.<BR/><BR/>Pax,<BR/> Scott+Scott Gunnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04775271116737644034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-10585997442517166332007-08-05T18:06:00.000+02:002007-08-05T18:06:00.000+02:00Scott, thanks for the clarification that this is n...Scott, thanks for the clarification that this is not entirely your imagining! I wondered if you were playing a silly game like "Let's make up something scandalous and see how many people take it seriously". Obviously not - as I would expect, as I now see that you are clergy and a diocesan communications officer.<BR/><BR/>(Location in my blogger profile, and my previous comment)Peter Kirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13395635409427347613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-39809550544469589332007-08-05T17:38:00.000+02:002007-08-05T17:38:00.000+02:00I thought having posted once on this discussion I ...I thought having posted once on this discussion I could post again without all the name/place palaver... sheesh. <BR/><BR/>I do think the attitude of some to the African Anglican leaders is quite patronising, whether it is racist or not. <BR/><BR/>Michael P Jensen, BA, BD, MTh, MSt, <BR/>7/9/70<BR/>6'2"<BR/>88kgs<BR/>Four children<BR/>In Oxford for now.michael jensenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15379361601019023165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-55237145354842702592007-08-05T13:34:00.000+02:002007-08-05T13:34:00.000+02:00Please note, name and location is required to post...<B>Please note</B>, name and location is <I>required</I> to post a comment!<BR/><BR/>I am getting the same feeling I used to get when advising people on exam technique. Rule No 1, read the question. Rule No 2, answer the question. There are no marks for saying wise and true things if you aren't answering the question on the paper.<BR/><BR/>So read the <A HREF="http://ugleyvicar.blogspot.com/2007/07/comments-policy.html" REL="nofollow">policy</A> before you post. Then <I>please</I> do what it asks you to. If your blogger profile gives these details - real name and real location - I'll let the post stand. If it doesn't, you won't get posted, which will be a shame if you've gone to all that effort and said something good.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03590979027426082714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-42152302249607789652007-08-05T13:25:00.000+02:002007-08-05T13:25:00.000+02:00A couple of people have left comments suggesting t...A couple of people have left comments suggesting there is something racist in the stance which suggests that the power behind Peter Akinola must be Peter Jensen, as if a black man couldn't run his own agenda.<BR/><BR/>I have refrained from publishing these as I think arguments about who is, and who isn't, being racist can be highly emotive and can themselves draw down an adverse reaction towards the poster.<BR/><BR/>Having said that, I personally have often felt there is a scarcely-concealed attitude in some circles that many African Anglicans are culturally bound at best and ignorant, unenlightened and backward at worst. It seems inconceivable to some people that they could hold the position they do regarding human sexuality on grounds of faithfulness to the biblical witness and not out of wickedness and homophobia.<BR/><BR/>Some of the language used about Peter Akinola, in particular, would be more appropriate from an unbeliever towards their worst enemy than from Christians towards someone who is either a fellow Christian, in which case they should be loved, or an enemy, in which case they should be loved.<BR/><BR/>We all sin and err in this area. <I>Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa</I> also. Yet we must surely beware of the fault, not excuse it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03590979027426082714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-27317464692876420492007-08-05T13:24:00.000+02:002007-08-05T13:24:00.000+02:00There's something else a bit strange about this ru...There's something else a bit strange about this rumour - the 'source' describes himself as 'in the Nigerian diocese' - which in ecclesiastical terms is meaningless - there is no such body. In this febrile atmosphere, when trust is almost entirely absent, both sides are prepared to believe anything about the other - and usually the worst. It's pretty depressing really, like watching a family you're part of fall apart not because of what someone's done but because of overactive imaginations and suspicious minds.Simon Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16887697385622160764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-83421896948033714452007-08-05T10:45:00.000+02:002007-08-05T10:45:00.000+02:00I think Richard Kirker's problem, as with many lib...I think Richard Kirker's problem, as with many liberals, particularly of the pro-gay kind is that they are actually racist.<BR/><BR/>How could a black Arch-B possbily come up with his own ideas? - kind of thing.<BR/><BR/>Obviously Sydney Diocese cares about what's going on. But they'll just get on with their own thing. And they aren't denonminationalist enough to be bothered if people just effectivly became free-Church. Akinola might, which is why he sends flying Bishops, whatever we think of them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-12546387978958984242007-08-05T08:00:00.000+02:002007-08-05T08:00:00.000+02:00Please may I remind commentors: name and location ...Please may I remind commentors: name and location are required! No anonymous/pseudonymous posting.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03590979027426082714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-69521791246862021402007-08-05T04:41:00.000+02:002007-08-05T04:41:00.000+02:00Peter,Actually, I don't think I said I started the...Peter,<BR/><BR/>Actually, I don't think I said I started the rumor. Rather, as I wrote in my post, I heard it from someone in the CofE with good connections in lots of places. I posted this story, not to be a rumor-monger, but to point out the absurdity of where we've gotten in our present "crisis." I didn't devise this out of my imagination, though my imagination imagines that parts of this rumor are likely to be true.<BR/><BR/>Frankly, I hope the rumor is completely wrong in every aspect. I guess time will tell.<BR/><BR/>Pax,<BR/> Scott+Scott Gunnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04775271116737644034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-71048554251514180962007-08-04T23:49:00.000+02:002007-08-04T23:49:00.000+02:00Wow, what does Richard Kirker know that I don't?Mi...Wow, what does Richard Kirker know that I don't?<BR/><BR/>Michael P Jensen<BR/><BR/>Oxford/Sydneymichael jensenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15379361601019023165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-19236712328805873032007-08-04T23:11:00.000+02:002007-08-04T23:11:00.000+02:00Actually, at the moment I'm also posting to Anglic...Actually, at the moment I'm also posting to Anglican Mainstream as Chris is away, so it was me who posted the story there. (There wasn't much else going on!) I don't know exactly where the story originally came from. I've just followed a few links from Thinking Anglicans to track down these others 'sources'. It is a safe bet, though, that Chris Sugden won't be putting on the purple for Nigeria (or Sydney!) in the near future.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03590979027426082714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9031852996869768738.post-87613398528008990342007-08-04T22:59:00.000+02:002007-08-04T22:59:00.000+02:00(Chelmsford)Scott Gunn, linked to in your PS, seem...(Chelmsford)<BR/><BR/>Scott Gunn, linked to in your PS, seems to more or less admit that he started this rumour, perhaps out of his own imagination. He also names Chris Sugden as the new bishop. Since <A HREF="http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/?p=1970" REL="nofollow">Anglican Mainstream has read this post</A>, perhaps its Executive Secretary will be in a position to deny, or just possibly confirm, the part of the rumour which applies to him.Peter Kirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13395635409427347613noreply@blogger.com